Enjoy the audio podcast above and transcript below. For more where that came from, listen to today’s (Friday’s) live Truth Jihad Radio with Alan Sabrosky, Wyatt Peterson, and Laurent Guyénot (or wait for the archive here) and watch tomorrow’s False Flag Weekly News.
Richie Allen interviews Kevin Barrett (rough transcript)
Last night I interviewed former BBC journalist Tony Gosling, a staunch defender of the rights of the Palestinian people and a fierce critic of Israeli government policy. Tony said he's optimistic and he has become a little bit more optimistic in recent days, partly because more than half a million Israelis took to the streets last weekend. Now, we're not saying that those half a million Israelis have the Palestinian people at the forefront of their minds. Maybe not, but they've had enough of Benjamin Netanyahu. They want hostages home and they want a deal.
Earlier this week, the UK Foreign Secretary David Lammy announced that the UK government would suspend as many as licenses, arms licences that the UK has with Israel. Now, they have many, many more licences because there was a genuine concern that some of those licences may assist the Israeli government in breaching international law.
My friend Kevin Barrett is on the line. He's a terrific broadcaster, writer, academic. He's much more besides regular visitor to these shores. And he's also a staunch defender of the rights of the indigenous people of Palestine. Welcome back, pal. It's been a very long time. I hope you had a great summer. How are you?
I'm doing OK, Richie. Good to hear you. And yeah, it's been a it's been a long, hot summer. Compared to what they're experiencing in Gaza, of course, it's not that unpleasant, no matter how hot it gets anywhere else.
No, it isn't. Do you share Tony's optimism with the protests we've seen in Israel, the demands for a deal so that the other hostages can come back, the UK government's intervention, which seems like just a gesture maybe to the maybe the hard left of the Labour Party. But nonetheless, it's kind of unusual. Does it give you any optimism that we might be nearing some sort of truth that might last?
Well,I think that we may be seeing a slowdown in this current round of accelerated genocide through extremism, but I don't think that's really going to change the overall trajectory of the history. What we're seeing right now is not just something out of the blue that started October 7th, but it's been an ongoing genocide, not only since 1947 but really for the past 500 years. There's been this plan, this messianic millenarian Jewish plan, to bring the Jews back to the Holy Land and fulfill the eschatological prophecies, which involve putting a world conqueror on the throne in occupied Jerusalem who will subjugate not only the local people there, but everyone. All of the non-Jews in the world will be subjugated to the Jews and to their Messiah, the military conqueror who rules the world from his throne in Jerusalem. And every Jew will have a thousand plus non-Jewish slaves.
That's the eschatological vision of the end times that has been very mainstream in Jewish culture. And for years, there have been these not-so-mainstream efforts to realize it. And that's what the Zionist project actually is. And Netanyahu knows this very well. His father was a Princeton professor who was an expert on the subject. And his cabinet members are people who just can't keep their mouth shut about it. So that project may reach a temporary setback if Netanyahu falls, but it won't go away.
I've never heard of this. You'll probably say unsurprisingly. But how seriously should we take texts that were written several centuries ago? I mean, I can't imagine for the life of me, whatever happens in the next 40, 50, 60 years, that we're going to see an Israel populated by Jewish people, each of them owning a thousand slaves, while central Jerusalem is the central government for the rest of the world. I just don't buy it, Kevin.
Yeah, I don't really buy it either as a realistic depiction of what's actually going to happen, but (instead I see it) as a sort of a roadmap that's been organizing the plans of the people who created the state of Israel and who are continuing its expansion and avidly yearning for the day that they greatly expand their borders and their influence over the world.
And yes, it's quite open. They do want a world capital. Even some liberal Zionists who are relatively secular want Jerusalem to be the world capital. People like Bernard-Henri Lévy, the French intellectual. So it is an important idea historically because it's organized the efforts and the thoughts of generations and generations and generations of very, very talented people who have been striving to realize it. Now, they may not all take it literally, the thousands of Jewish slaves and so on and so forth. But the tribal effort to totally subjugate non-Jews to Jews, to maximize Jewish power as much as possible, and to link this to creating this ever-expanding, ever more powerful and influential Jewish state in the Holy Land—that's very real. It's probably the most important historical phenomenon of the past five centuries.
Yeah, the Greater Israel Project is a real thing. People should educate themselves about it. They should learn about it. There's no doubt about that. You're listening to Kevin Barrett. Kevin is in Morocco (being interviewed) on Thursday's programme.
Little victories, maybe not little, but for free speech, the owners of Facebook Meta have told the State of Israel, effectively, they're standing by their decision that people can use terms like from the river to the sea on their Facebook accounts and they won't be deleted and they won't be banned. Is it tokenism, Kevin, or is it maybe just a little sign that maybe opinions are changing in certain parts of the world because of the awful spectacle we've seen in the last 10, 11 months, at least 40,000 men, women and children obliterated in Palestine. The land, the city is completely destroyed. Horrible videos lately on social media of Israeli bulldozers, seemingly just for the hell of it, ripping up roads that might be very useful when the Palestinians attempt to get off their knees and rebuild their lives again. But little things like this, do you see that as some kind of a sign the tide might be turning against the Israelis in terms of public opinion around the world?
Yes, I think it is turning. And I think social media has played a huge role. But there has been a tremendous censorship push against social media. And I don't think it's going to end overnight. But these little steps forward, of course, always welcome. We've seen this huge pushback against the platforms that allow people to post pro-Palestinian content. We've had people arrested for their pro-Palestinian content. Over the past several weeks in the UK there have been several people arrested for posting things that were deemed to be too supportive of the Palestinian resistance. So it's going to take a while to turn that one around. At the same time, the reality is just so horrible that they can't completely hide it. So it's an interesting situation where the censors are kind of trying to play whack-a-mole as the majority of the world, certainly the vast majority of the global south, is very much aware of the reality of what's going on and posting it on social media. And then the billionaire, mostly Jewish Zionist oligarchs, not all of them are Jewish, but if they're not Jewish, then they're still owned by the Zionists, like Elon Musk, who was forced to go and genuflect before the Holy Holocaust memorial in Israel, that have shadowbanned pro-Palestine voices. They've kicked people off their platforms.
And then again, we've been seeing these actual arrests. And people like Scott Ritter pulled off airplanes and then raided by the FBI. And the fact that Scott Ritter is an outspoken defender of Palestine and specifically of the resistance and of Hamas probably had a whole lot to do with that.
So, yeah, I think it's a great sign when they loosen up the censorship here and there. But again, we have a long way to go.
Yeah, you mentioned the arrests. Tony said that to me last night. I didn't know anything of this. I only returned from a three week holiday this week. Tony Gosling said to me, and he's right, Richard Medhurst and Sarah Wilkinson were among several high profile writers and bloggers who take as is their absolute right to take a very pro-Palestinian anti-Israeli government position, were arrested on some sort of counter-terrorism investigation. Horrendous stuff
I want to pick you up on Musk. I’m no fan of Musk. Musk has said “nobody forced me to go to Israel. I did because I’m open-minded. I wanted to go and see for myself.” That's what Musk says.
Yeah, and he knows as well as everybody else knows that if he says anything very different from that, it's not that he'll never work in this town again…but he's obviously well-versed in who has the power. And I think it's really telling that somebody as rich as Elon Musk, possibly the world's richest man, is so terrorized by Jewish power that he has to do these things and he can't speak frankly about them. He also had to yield to some of their demands about who to censor, who to shadow ban and who to reinstate on his platform after he was pressured by the ADL. These Jewish organizations organized a boycott of Twitter and basically were threatening to bankrupt it if he didn't surrender. So his response? A trip to Israel and kissing the holy Holocaust relics and putting on the little beanie and worshiping the forthcoming “Third temple” where they'll be slaughtering pink heifers and all of that sort of thing. It was obviously a demonstration of surrender. So when he says he was just curious, he's lying, because he knows he has to lie to stay in business
It's interesting. You and I have been friends for years and you know this is a free speech forum. There's no but coming. There's never a but coming. You will say what you like and I won't get in the way of it. I've never been comfortable with the notion of Jewish power. I've never been comfortable with it because I don't believe in it. Zionist power and Israeli power—well, I'd be a lawyer and a shill if I didn't acknowledge it. I spoke openly on this programme for years and I even did this week. The most successful lobby in the UK, whether it's politics, whether it's food, whether it's textiles, no matter what it is, tobacco…the biggest lobby is the Israeli lobby. And it's the same in the United States of America. It's all powerful. It's Israeli Zionist power. And all too often, my experience has been—and I know a lot of Jewish people, they're blissfully unaware of what goes on, Kevin. In my experience, blissfully unaware of it.
Right, Richie, and I'm certainly not trying to impugn Jewish people in general. And obviously, when we're talking about Jewish power, we're not talking about some sort of racial or genetic trait. Racism against Jews is just as evil and ugly as all other forms of racism. But the fact is that critics of Jewish ideology have a good case. Gilad Atzman is well known for making one version of that case. The French intellectual, Laurent Guyenot—I translated his great book from Yahweh to Zion—has made another case.
I happen to be a Muslim, not a Jew or a Christian. I think there are some really serious problems in Jewish ideology. The Jewish religion itself has these very, very problematic supremacist tenets. And since the Jewish community has actually become somewhat less religious but paradoxically more millenarian and messianic over the past 500 years these problems have actually gotten much, much worse.
There's a whole discussion to be had on the intellectual level about what are the problems in Jewish tribal ideology that we're critiquing here. That's what I’m talking about when I talk about jewish power. I’m talking about the way that a certain self-styled Jewish elite manipulates other people who identify as being Jewish by calling on this rabidly supremacist tribal ideology that's based in the Jewish religion, but it's not completely limited to the Jewish religion.
You know I have the utmost respect for your religion. I do, for everybody's religion. I'm no scholar, but I'd be a lousy broadcaster if I didn't take you up on you saying you have problems with the Jewish religion and Jewish ideology. And I did say to you today, there's no Shanghai on this programme. I said I wanted to talk to you about a lot of the anti-Muslim stuff that's going on, particularly here in the UK at the moment, Kevin. But I will have listeners who are conservatives, and they will take a very dim view of Islam. Some of them will be screaming at me, Richie, what about some of the very problematic passages in the Quran? And they will say to me, what about Surah 27:63? They will say, this is what Allah says:
“Now go and strike the infidel and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.”
They'll say, come on, Kevin, that doesn't sound great.
That's not a Quranic text, Richie. What you just quoted was from the Old Testament, the Jewish Bible, not the Quran. There is no such text as that which you described in the Quran. It doesn't exist. I just looked that up. The Qur’an’s Surah 27:63 says:
“Is he not best who guides you through the darknesses of the land and sea and who sends the winds as good tidings before his mercy? Is there a God other than God? High is God above whatever they associate with him.”
What you just read, I recognize that: That's an Old Testament verse. There is nothing about slaughtering children and donkeys in the Quran. It's in the Old Testament, not the Quran.
Yes.
This is so symptomatic, Richie. The whole world has been propagandized into believing that the defects of the Old Testament, which is indeed a genocidal book in many respects, are then projected onto the Quran, which absolutely is not.
Now, to the listener who sent me that, you do have a chance to respond. You can send me a message because I got that through the app. There's an app for the program people can message. And I knew something like this might come up. Kevin has said this is Old Testament. I haven't read the Quran, so I'm in no...position here whatsoever to challenge Kevin on it. If you want to come back on it, let me know and I'll put it to him.
What about those who say that that this Kevin, this idea,,.,And I push back against this all the time because Muslims have lived in the UK for, I don't know, like in recent times, 60 or 70 years, let's say. And for the most part, Pakistani Muslims, Muslims from other parts of the world, Africa or other parts of the Middle East, have lived in fairly relative harmony here in the UK.
But there are those who say, and they point to things like grooming gangs and other things like that, they point to the Quran and Muhammad marrying a 12 year old girl and all this sort of stuff and they say ultimately no matter what Kevin or anybody else says Islam and the way of life and the belief system is incompatible with a secular country like the United Kingdom. What would your response be to that?
First, there are billions of dollars of propaganda money being spent to try to both bring in all of these refugees and immigrants and so on, and then to incite the native population against them to blame Islam. Tommy Robinson, of course, is the classic example of this. He's 100% Zionist funded. He is basically a representative of the state of Israel. And his job is to incite relatively low information British people against Muslims on behalf of Israel.
And that's part of this 500-year-old plan. Believe it or not, Richie, the leading lights of the Jewish community, like Rabbi Abarbanel and Solomon Molko, for 500 years have been planning a messianic Jewish takeover of the world, like I described earlier, by way of creating an apocalyptic war between Christians and Muslims. They actually tried to do this in the 1500s by convincing the Pope to go to war against the Ottoman Empire. And that plan to turn Christians and Muslims against each other has been the mainstay of Zionist thought for years. So Tommy Robinson with his shekels that he's getting from Tel Aviv is just one agent of this centuries-old Zionist plot.
Now, yes, there is an immigration problem. I don't blame native peoples for not wanting to be replaced. Certainly the Palestinians can relate to that. But the religion of Islam is not a part of the problem at all. In fact, the bad behavior by immigrants from Muslim backgrounds is very much correlated to their not being devoted and practicing Muslims. So if you want to improve the immigrants behavior, you should try to get them going to mosques. You should build more mosques and try to help intensify their Islamic religiosity.
I don't think that's going to go down too well with some of our listeners. The idea of building more mosques, Kevin, particularly in Ireland, where the almost suicidal policy of the Irish government to throw the doors of the country open to anybody and everybody who wants to come in, while at the same time, of course, completely decimating public services. So the indigenous people of the country are struggling anyway. Let me put some messages from our listeners to you.
Michael says, what does Kevin say? And Kevin, I didn't think it would go like this, but I know how amiable you are. So we can have this conversation. Michael says, doesn't the Quran say that Christians and Jews are pigs and monkeys?
Absolutely not. The Quran says that among the best friends and allies of the Muslims you'll find are the Christians or those who say they are Christian because they have very devoted priests and monks and they are humble, not arrogant. And among the worst enemies will be the Jews and the pagans, and the implication is that they're arrogant and not sincerely devout, humble, and religious.
So Christians are actually very highly viewed in the Qur'an and in the covenants of the Prophet Muhammad, peace upon him, which are actually still in force and incumbent on all Muslims everywhere. We Muslims are enjoined to protect Christians, to protect their churches, and to protect the monks and all of their activities. And the Muslims throughout history, the rulers, have a somewhat mixed record at doing this, but it's actually pretty good. It's certainly far better than the Christian rulers protecting Muslims in their mosques and so on.
So where did this come from, this pigs and monkeys thing? Well, that's describing the members of the Jewish community who have rejected the prophets. And the Quran very strongly criticizes those members of the jewish community who have repeatedly out of self-interest and greed and egotism rejected the prophetic message of humility and love and surrender to God. So (the “pigs and monkeys” who arrogantly reject this message) would of course include the Jews who refused to accept Jesus, peace upon him, as the Messiah.
We muslims agree with Christians that Jesus, peace upon him, is the one and only Messiah. And we strongly oppose the “Jewish” Antichrist which will be the “Jewish messiah” whose job is to conquer the world militarily and enslave all non-Jews. That's the messiah that Jews have always been waiting for. And we Christians and Muslims together have acknowledged that Jesus is the one true Messiah.
Why don't you know this? Because your media is controlled by the party of Antichrist.
And yet there are many—I can't argue with any of this because I'm not a theologian. And I know you're an academic and you have converted to Islam. You've obviously embraced it, Kevin, and you familiarized yourself with the Quran. I'm sure you read the Quran every day. So I just can't, I'm not qualified to argue against any of this. I'm not. So listeners are throwing things at me, attempting to throw me a branch, Kevin. I'm drowning in a river here because I don't know anything about any of these texts at all.
I'm not having any of this Jewish Antichrist stuff. We'll come maybe back to that later on. I've seen some of the Torah as much as I've seen some of the Koran and the Bible. And there's a lot of love there and compassion and community and sharing in the Torah as much as there is in the Quran and the Bible, at least as I've seen. But again, I'm drowning here. I have no theological knowledge whatsoever. But I'm going to put some things to you. There are some customs that seem to be uniquely Islamic in the modern day. And I don't think they're the exception. I think they're fairly widespread that I would believe are very incompatible with somebody like myself who's a secular guy who considers himself to be agnostic.
And I’m particularly talking about forced arranged marriages, which is a big thing. Female genital mutilation, which is a fairly big thing. Women, certainly in some countries where Islam is kind of preeminent, definitely being treated as second class citizens. And the court system and some of the measures taken against people for committing what I would consider to be non-crimes. These are fair questions and fair points to ask, aren't they? And a lot of our listeners are coming at me with, here's Ben, “what about Muslim ideology, Sharia law, and the dim attitude to women Muslims have?” These are fair questions about the religion.
It's kind of too many all at once. But just to take a couple of them, it's true that many Muslim majority areas have these kinds of traditional marriage customs, things like forced or not so much forced marriage, but family-arranged marriage (almost always arranged by older women) just like traditional Hindu areas in India do, to exactly the same extent.
That is, you're no more likely to have forced or arranged marriages in a traditional Muslim area, let's say in India or anywhere, as in a traditional Hindu area. The same kinds of practices are in all traditional societies.
So what we're talking about here is traditional ways versus modern individualistic ways. And the religion of Islam is not really weighing on either side. In other words, there's nothing in the religion of Islam that favors arranged marriages over any other kind of marriage.
There is, of course, a (scholarly) literature that shows that arranged marriages are more likely to be happy and long-lasting than non-arranged ones, but we won't get into that. It's a kind of a dead-end discussion there, because again, it's not a religious thing.
Likewise, actually even more so, female circumcision is absolutely against the religion of Islam. So say the great majority of Islamic scholars. It's not practiced in the vast majority of Muslim countries and by the vast majority of Muslims worldwide. So it's only a minority community that practices that based on indigenous African tribal roots.
It's not coming out of Islam. There's nothing in Islam whatsoever that encourages female circumcision.
Unfortunately, there is a tradition of male circumcision in Islam, and just my saying “unfortunately” already marks me out as a bit of a free thinker within the religion. But I think that of all of the Islamic practices that a rational person would critique, I think (male) circumcision would be number one. But the Islamic version of circumcision, which often happens at seven, eight, nine years old, is not nearly as devastating to the personality as infant circumcision, which is practiced by all Jews and actually a majority of US Americans.
A lot of Christians…I was circumcised as a baby.
Yeah, it's a Jewish idea.
Yeah, I've not been to therapy for a long time, Kevin. But I think if I do go, I might explore it. I might do regression therapy, hypnosis. Because I can't imagine it was too pleasant when I was an infant to have the circumcision. But my parents opted for it.
You're listening to Kevin Barrett. Kevin's a friend of ours, a friend of mine. But it's my job to challenge him. And it's your job to challenge him when you're doing it. Kevin, many of us wouldn't know about September the 11th and what might have gone on that day, the false flag event that it was and what it led to. He's one of the guys most responsible for us knowing about it. We'll be forever grateful to him for it.
You'll find him on unz.com. You'll find him on truthjihad.com. I'll put links to where you can find Kevin on the podcast notes.
He converted to Islam. He lives in Morocco with his wife Rabia, great lady, author. If you're listening, it would be lovely to be chatting with you today.
Colin says, Kevin Barrett is engaging in the classic Islamic tactic, and I'm not saying this now jokingly, I'm being fair to my listeners, that they use to lie to us infidels. Kevin, you are using something called Taqiyya, T-A-Q-I, Yankee, Yankee, Alpha. Taqiyya, it's your tactic, Kevin. You're throwing misdirection at us. Islam is not really as good as you're portraying it. It's an ancient, backwards, belongs in the Stone Age religion. That's from Colin.
You know, it’s kind of hilarious that people actually believe this stuff. Because it's really low-grade propaganda. Nobody who takes an introduction to Islamic studies class at a university would ever be vulnerable to believing that taqiyya is about systematically lying to try to make Islam look good. That's ridiculous.
The word taqiyya refers to a practice that Shia Muslims, who are a small minority within Islam representing perhaps at the very most 10 to 15 percent of Muslims, have traditionally (avoided conflict with Sunni authorities through silence or dissimulation)…the Shia have their ways of doing things and Sunni Muslims have their way. And the Shia tradition has typically been kind of a revolutionary or at least sort of a counterculture within Islam. That is, the Shia are people seeking justice and wanting to sort of push back against the Sunni rulers. And so it's been viewed as kind of dangerous and subversive by the Sunni majorities. And therefore, there have been periods of persecution of Shia people within Muslim communities.
So the notion of taqiyya only ever referred to a Shia practice. That is, it does not apply to 85% to 90% of Muslims, including myself. I'm from a Moroccan Sufi-Sunni background.
And what taqiyya’s about is that the Shia, if they are being persecuted by powerful Sunnis, are allowed to conceal or dissimulate their actual beliefs so that they can get along in Sunni society. That's all it is. It has nothing to do with Muslims talking to non-Muslims. It never did.
And it is Zionist liars, propagandists, who made up this “taqiyya” story and foisted it on you.
Do you ever think that you, however bright you might be, every other Muslim, every Jew, every Christian, that this is just one massive game of identitarianism that we're all suckered into, that we're all drowning in while this technocratic dystopian transhumanist society is being built around us? Even great minds like yourself and I’m not kissing your arse you are a great mind, I disagree with you on many things, but i admire you for the way you think… Do you not, because of your scholastic background, do you not leave room for this, that we might all be drowning in identity politics while we're all being marched off to the abattoir of dystopia and technocracy? What do you think?
Yeah, I think there's a lot to be said for that. And I would discourage taking too much of an identity politics approach to Islam or any religion. I kind of get forced into it a little bit because there are so many outrageous, insane misconceptions about Islam that are being pumped into the communication systems backed by billions and billions of dollars in propaganda money. For example, 9/11 was a gigantic public relations stunt against Islam. That was its number one purpose. It was part of that 500-year-old Zionist plan to turn the Christians against the Muslims and trick them into an apocalyptic war.
So indeed, identity politics is bad news. I take a bit more of a traditional perennialist approach to religion, which is that ultimately there's one God, one truth, with many different symbolic languages for talking about it, and many different traditions of rituals and behavioral codes for living in harmony with it.
And I think a rational person has many good reasons to accept Islam's claim to be the last and best preserved of the classic revealed religions. But that's a long story, so I won't give you all the details there.
So yeah, I think identity politics is part of the divide and conquer operation. But I don't think the religious aspect of it is necessarily the worst. I think the nationalist aspect is maybe even worse. Here in the Islamic world, where I'm now living in Morocco, these countries, most of the countries in the region, the Arabic-speaking countries in particular, have been sliced and diced into little tiny ethnic and sectarian enclaves. The Oded Yunon Israeli plan from the 1970s for breaking them up into even smaller pieces has been put into place, too.
So I think that nationalism is the single biggest force for dividing people up and turning them against each other. Religion less so, but religion is often exploited by the people who are trying to play that game.
One final question before we talk about something else that I must put to you. It seems to me there's no doubt that in Germany and in Sweden, and we're seeing a bit of this in Ireland, where we've had a rapid influx of young men coming from different countries, but whose identity would be, whose religion would be Islam. There's no doubt I don't believe, and you know me, I'm honest, we've known each other for years, I don't buy into the bullshit, I make my own mind up. It seems that where we've had those influxes, we have seen an increase in crimes and attacks against women, which are really alarming for people in those areas. So what I want to ask you is, and this is not sarcasm or childishness or silliness at all, I mean it. If it's true that there's been an increase in these crimes, and I think the evidence bears that there has, and I don't get my statistics from Tommy Moron Robinson, by the way…What part is religion playing in the behaviour of these young men? Because to the people on the ground in Dublin and in Sweden and in Germany, the natives, I should say, they seem to believe that these young men's religious beliefs are playing a fairly big part in their behaviour. Now, you don't have to answer for it because you're not somebody who takes a dim view of women. You're an upstanding man. But you are a Muslim and I'm putting it to you. So what would you say to that?
I think that's getting it exactly backwards. I think that to the extent that there is that problem, and it's a real problem..but we need to remember, that the vast majority of people from the Muslim countries and indeed (Christian) Sub-Saharan Africa and wherever else people are coming from into places like England and Ireland, are just normal people and likely to be upstanding citizens.
Here in Sadia, Morocco, on the Mediterranean, I'm in a vacation town that swells from 4000 people in the winter to maybe 40,000-plus in the summer. And the great majority of vacationers are ethnic Moroccans from France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Spain, and perhaps some from the UK as well. And these people are well to do. They buy these nice villas, you know, near me in roughly the same neighborhood that I'm in. They're economically successful. Some of them become doctors and lawyers, others are contractors and things like that. So these are people who were good citizens of their European countries, or still are in many cases. And some of them are actually coming back to live in Morocco.
And so the majority of non-European people who come to Europe are like that. They're going to be normal people and probably good neighbors and good citizens. In America, there'd be no medical care for half the country, the poor half of the country, if they didn't have Muslim doctors.
But then there is this rise in the crime rate (in some European countries) that you mentioned. Does that have something to do with religion? Of course not! It's the opposite. The problem is that when you have a religious culture that then loses its religion, people who grow up in a religious culture and then they end up in a non-religious culture and they stop being religious…That's when you have problems.
I learned that here in Morocco (when I first came 30 years ago fearing pious “extremist” Muslims, and then learned that criminals and other dubious characters in Muslim countries are almost exclusively non-religious).
Hang on, hang on. Allow me to interject. That's very cheeky that. I see what you did there. So they're taken out of their Islamic environment and now they're in one where it isn't an Islamic environment. And this somehow explains the change in behavior. I would say, no, hang on. Maybe you're right, maybe religion hasn't got anything to do with it. Maybe it's a cultural thing. Maybe where some of these young men come from, maybe they take a pretty dim view of women's rights, or they are brought up to think that men are superior than women and have more rights than women. That's a fair point, that.
No, it is not. And my point about religion is, I think, absolutely accurate, and it doesn't just apply to Islam. For instance, the African-American community was vastly better off in the 1950s and before that when it was much more religious, than it has been since the religious foundations of the African-American community have been systematically destroyed by secularist propaganda, by welfare laws that encourage women to have babies out of wedlock, by the CIA bringing drugs into their neighborhoods and organized efforts to make money by selling them drugs and alcohol. The fact that African Americans have become less religious has everything to do with the horrific problems that we find in poor black neighborhoods in the United States. And the same thing is absolutely true of Muslims, whether they're in Morocco or other Muslim majority countries or whether they're in Europe. They are part of the demographic that's losing religion and turning to things like drugs and fast living and alcohol and materialism and wanting to have money and looking at pretty pictures of girls on the Internet. All those worldly things. When they get into those worldly things, a certain percentage of them are going to do whatever it takes to get what they want. And religion is the best way of slowing that process down, by turning people to something higher, sublimating those base impulses into something noble.
We don't have to get into this today. Maybe another day. You've been a great sport, by the way, because I didn't imagine the conversation going like this. I didn't. So I really do appreciate that. But for those of us who don't believe in a God with these rules, I mean, where do we go? We'll talk about that another day. I want to read three or four comments. You don't need to come back on the comments because I want to ask you about... my fears that in the very near future, these open dialogue situations that we have and that you have with many other commentators and researchers, they might be coming to an end because of the greatest attack on free speech I think that humanity is ever known. But just a couple of quick comments. Susanna has been in touch, who says, what about the way women are treated? What about the women who don't want to have an arranged marriage and have been killed by a family member? We talked about that. Thank you for that. Donald said, he's Moroccan, Richie. He isn't Moroccan, Donald. Kevin is Caucasian. He was born in the USA. But thank you for that. And anyway, hi to Chris. Never mind all the pros and cons of the various religious texts. All garbage in my opinion, he says. The Israelis are, it seems, aiming for the clash of Islam and Christendom. And that's from Chris, huge interest in this, unsurprisingly. And as I said, we didn't think the conversation would go this way, but thanks to Kevin. We'll avoid it next time. We'll talk more about geopolitics. But I wanted to talk to you, Kevin. I don't know how it is in Morocco. Maybe you will know. I don't know how it is in Africa in general. I should know. Maybe I need to look it up. But in this country, in the UK, in Ireland, of course, and it's coming to the United States as well, they're really moving against the last place we can have conversations like this where we can say anything and put our points of view out there. And that is internet radio, internet podcasts. They're coming for us, Kevin. How dangerous is it? My fear is, in a couple of years' time less, internet anonymity will be banned. You will have to register. They will have to have your birth cert or your passport so they know exactly who you are. Now that won't matter to you because you've never hidden behind a pseudonym. And neither have I. But they're really coming for these types of forums. Is there anything we can do about it? How worried about it are you? Five minutes we have.
I'm pretty horrified by it, and I'm worried about the future of the world where these systematic big lies rule, and people are hardly able to challenge them because of this ever-worse clampdown on intelligent conversation and questioning official dogmas. And yeah, I'm you know, it's already far beyond what I had imagined back in 2009 when Cass Sunstein, Obama's information czar, wrote his book on conspiracy theories and said that someday it might be necessary to ban conspiracy theories. But in the meantime, what we can do now is to infiltrate conspiracy movements and promote, quote unquote, “beneficial cognitive diversity” in order to, quote unquote, “cripple the purveyors of conspiracy theories.” So this was really all about his fear of 9/11 truth. And Cass Sunstein, I think, was actually ahead of his time. At that time, we all laughed when he said someday they'll ban conspiracy theories. We said they can't do that. The Internet is free. And we all know that it has to be viewpoint neutral. Every platform on the Internet has to be viewpoint neutral. They cannot encourage one opinion versus blocking or dialing down or, God forbid, deplatforming another opinion. That was the consensus of all the people that ran the Internet right up until around 2015 or so.
And that's all changed. The last 10 years have been a time of Orwellian gathering darkness. And maybe the sun will go all the way down and we'll all get arrested if we talk like this in the same way that Sarah Wilkinson was arrested. And Richard Medhurst. And now we've got Pavel Durov being held in Paris and they're shaking him upside down to make the keys to Telegram fall out of his pocket.
It's just insane, Richie. Maybe it was lucky that we started doing this back when we could, because I kind of worry about people who want to take up this podcasting business in the time that we're in now.
And can I just, a final question on this, with seconds to go, what would we do, Kevin? Because if they compel those companies who host our websites, and I think they will eventually, if they compel us to close this down…Where would we go then? Where would Dr. Kevin Barrett go to speak to people Where the hell would I go to do a show like this? Would we be going back to kind of driving around in cars, Kevin, with transistors and doing localised FM radio? How the hell would we fight back against it? It's a fairly deep question with seconds left. Go ahead.
Yeah, it's a great question. I probably shouldn't get into the fact that long ago when I when I launched my truth jihad, which is supposed to be self-effacing humor with a bit of absurdity. But there's a true element: “the best jihad is a word of truth flung in the face of a tyrant.” That's Islamic scripture. But I said, you know, we've got free speech, so I'm going to wage a verbal battle, right? Sigmund Freud said that the inventor of civilization was the first person who hurled an insult instead of a rock. So I'm going to be hurling words instead of hand grenades.
But it might get to the point that we all have to start hurling hand grenades. I hate to say that, but, you know, I'm not going to be crushed. I'm not. And I don't think anybody with any sense of decency and pride is going to allow themselves to be completely crushed by Big Brother. So get ready for violence in the streets if they try that.
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