Ryan Cristian will join my radio show next week. For links to many of the stories discussed in this interview see the latest False Flag Weekly News writeup. -KB
At UCLA in California overnight hundreds of protesters have now been arrested by LAPD officers. They broke down barricades to clear this protest this morning. Hundreds of people with tents had set up encampments at the university. Officers said “get out or you will be arrested.” They have carried out hundreds of arrests, tied people's hands behind their backs, put them on buses. Stun grenades were used apparently. On Tuesday, a counter pro-Israeli group assaulted a pro-Palestinian student camp before officers were called in. Similar protests are happening at campuses right across America.
Let's welcome back to the show two very good friends of ours. Kevin Barrett is a former academic. He's a broadcaster, author, and researcher. You'll find him at kevinbarrett.substack.com. And Ryan Cristian is the man behind the brilliant thelastamericanvagabond.com, an independent journalist and broadcaster. Gentlemen, welcome to the program. It's great to have you on. How are you doing?
Kevin Barrett: Hey, always good to be with you, Richie and Ryan. Ryan, I really love your work. I’ve got to get you on my radio show sometime.
Ryan Cristian: Absolutely. And thanks, Richie, for having us on and vice versa. Right back at you, Kevin. And I'm happy to do so.
Great stuff. Kevin, I'll start with Ryan today. Ryan, you're all over this. I know Kevin is. He's in Morocco. What are your thoughts? Listeners are asking me questions about these protests and how organic are they? How grassroots are they? Is there something else behind them? I mean, the glass is always half full for me. I look at them and I think, wonderful, they're standing up to their universities, they're saying “look folks don't do business with people who do business with Israel. Don't do business with the Israeli government. They're committing genocide in Gaza, it's terrible.” For me it all looks great. What do you think Ryan?
Ryan Cristian: Well I think it's an important place to start and I think that one thing we have to remember, that I'm sure anybody who's been doing this long enough can attest to, is that no matter what movement, what side, what religion, what race, what country we're talking about, there will be political entities, there will be corporations—there will be entities trying to influence the outcome. And this is always the case. That does not mean that the objective of some of the people there are is invalid. But I agree with you, I think what we're seeing is a very powerful moment of unity against empire, against power, against governments. And that terrifies the hell out of these people that we're talking about. That's not to say that there's not manipulators on the ground. We can provably show open statements on Twitter by accounts that are made to do this—that they're infiltrating Palestinian protests, faking things, yelling things to get them shut down.
Everyone has a different opinion on what they want to be called on the side fighting for stopping Palestinian genocide. But then I can promise you there's somebody out there that will yell a slur that they think is appropriate. But that does not mean they're all the same thing. And I think the reality here is that they're pushing back against the obvious oppression home and abroad, right?
The obvious shutdown of these protests coming from people who 30 seconds ago were screaming about how this is something that should never be challenged or, whether we're talking about any other amendment shall not be infringed, they're suddenly finding a reason to do so. And I think that's an important part of all this.
Thanks Ryan. Kevin, when I invited you on today, I think you said something along the lines of, “it'll be nice to come on and talk about some positive news from my country for a change.” So you're happy, like you're moved by this, I think?
Kevin Barrett: Yeah, it's one of the very few good things that's happened in the United States in quite some time. Since I moved to Morocco in July, I have been just seeing one thing after another that makes me really glad I'm out of there. Now, I almost wish I were back. I saw today the front page Guardian story on the American occupations and protests, of which there are now over 120. There was a picture of the University of Wisconsin-Madison. They have an encampment on Bascom Hill. Now, that's right by where I used to do 9-11 truth teach-ins. I was out there a month's worth of days full of 9/11 truth teach-ins back in the day. And so I kind of flashed back to that when I saw this, and I saw how many people that were out there. And then they just had the cops coming in instantly and wading in and trying to shut it down quite brutally, throwing a professor on the ground. We've seen this several times now.
And so these young, idealistic, left-leaning college students are learning the truth of that saying attributed to Voltaire that “to know who rules you, just ask who you're not allowed to criticize.” The oppression that's come down on this is so amazing. There are protests all the time on campuses, but if you want to protest for Palestine, if you want to protest against Zionist genocide, get ready for the cops to come after you and for the JDL terrorist thugs to be allowed by the cops to come and attack you, which just happened at UCLA.
Kevin, before Ryan comes back in, I heard a Stanford professor, I think a Jewish gentleman, his name escapes me. But his clip is on, I think, Talk TV or Times Radio's Twitter. Kevin, he said, look, the thing that annoys me about these students, is most of them don't have a clue about the the history of the region. He says they know nothing about the conflict going back…When you ask them what does “river to the sea” mean, they can't tell you the river or the sea, he said. And he said they don't know that the Israeli government offered very generous two-state solution plans many times over the years. And these students, they know nothing about it, he said, Kevin.
Kevin Barrett: Well, I'm sure there probably are a few protesters who aren't very well versed in history and geography. But I think on the whole, he's got it exactly backwards. He's the one who is utterly and completely ignorant. Because you can't be more ignorant than thinking that you know a whole lot, but what you know is wrong. I think Mark Twain said something along those lines only a little bit more wittily than I just did.
That gentleman is one of the most ignorant people on earth. The notion that this genocidal Zionist entity that's been committing nonstop genocide not just since it was founded in the Palestinian Holocaust of 1948, but even for 50 years before that, they were planning it and systematically carrying out through systematic terrorism. They invented modern terrorism, as Thomas Suarez explains in his book, State of Terror.
So this gentleman that you are referring to has been reading the propaganda churned out by the Jewish-Zionist-owned media and publishing industry. And it's true that if you just randomly read whatever you find in the used bookstore on this region, what you're going to find is stuff that was published precisely because it's Zionist propaganda, because Zionist Jews own the media, own the publishing houses, and put out all kinds of utterly and completely ignorant garbage about this region in English.
And so the books published in English, practically 90-plus percent of them, are propaganda garbage. And so he thinks he knows something, but what he knows is completely wrong. I think he and all the rest of the Zionists should be sent to the Jewish autonomous oblast at the border of China, Mongolia, and Russia, which should be turned into a gigantic re-education camp.
I'm not going to get into a brawl with you today about who owns the media. We've done that before. We might do it again in the future. Ryan, come back in on that, if you want to, come in on any of those points too, but I'm interested in how it's been policed, Ryan, with the eyes of the world really on UCLA. I don't know if you caught any of my introduction to you guys. Sky News dropped everything this morning, overnight, and it's offering blanket coverage. The BBC has been going to it every five, ten minutes. And yet I read in the press that the policing has been very heavy handed. Not what I've seen, at least not what I've seen in the pictures. And I'm wondering, are the LAPD people on site there, are they aware that the world's media is watching them? And is that in any way influencing the way it's being policed? What do you think?
Ryan Cristian: Yeah, that's a great question. But first, I will go back to the point you were asking before, and I think it's really interesting. Kevin nailed it in regard to the fact that these people are pushing things openly that are some of the easiest historical things to (dis)prove. And I'm not talking about disputes over long-term history. I'm talking about like basic realities of occupation, basic realities of international law that are easy to prove about what's currently going on and what's been going on for 75 years. So it's so interesting to have him come out and say something like that about how “these people don't understand the history.” But also to Kevin's point, just because someone may not understand the nuances or even the entirety of history around a topic does not mean they can't recognize oppression or recognize genocide. And that's really what this has done.
Another point to that is that we're seeing this weird pushback from these extreme groups. I shouldn't even…removing the word extreme, right-leaning people that side with Israel for whatever reason that are suddenly in this uncomfortable position where you've got people supporting Israel comparing what's happening to January 6th. And you've got this weird dynamic where they're sort of confused by all this, but they seem to hate what's going on because look at there's a bunch of woke lefties with masks on, which I'll happily talk all day about how dumb that is and how they're wrong about those things. But what's crazy is, as Dan Cohen points out, Palestinians are predominantly conservative, and most of them were aggressively against the COVID injection. And so it's just weird political manipulation, as always, with the two-party illusion.
The Mark Twain quote is, and one of my favorites, “It's not what you know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” I love that quote.
To your question about the policing. I tend to disagree, and I think what we're seeing is a very obviously, whether it's because they believe they're on the right side or because they are very pro-Zionist or pro-Israel or whatever it is, a largely policed... The way that they're handling this is unconstitutional. It is, in my opinion, very heavy-handed. And we can see this. There's countless examples of this. And the point is that even just today, Vanessa Bealey was highlighting that one of these police members, when just standing there next to somebody, spit on one of the Palestinian flags. And it's also on video. You can't say that's every policeman—we don't broad stroke because we're not ridiculous—but we can see that there is some level of that. And the last point that I'll highlight is the reason this is being allowed and being driven and why some of these policemen believe that this is justified is because of this ridiculous—and this goes back to the point before about misunderstanding the history of what Zionism is, calling this all antisemitism.
I mean, for crying out loud, you’ve got people calling this “extreme Jew hatred” while at any moment in most of these places, half of these (pro-Palestine protestors) are Jewish with major Jewish organizations. And they just disregard them. I find it hard to believe they can disregard the many different Holocaust survivors that have stood there saying, “I proudly support what's happening here.” Or prominent Jewish writers who have gone out there and said, “there's nothing crazy I'm seeing.” It's just this horrifying misrepresentation. And that's what's putting both Jews and everybody else in danger.
They're the wrong Jews. That's the problem you see.
A question for you, Ryan, and then Kevin can answer the same question. Look, I've a Jewish friend. I really do. I don't have any black friends, so I'm not virtue signalling. I have a Jewish friend, though. And he's a good lad. He is kind of agnostic about the situation in the Middle East, as he's entitled to be. He's certainly no supporter of Israel at all. And he says to me about these protests that are growing and growing, and we're seeing them here in the UK too and in France. He says, “Richie, yeah, fair enough, it's terrible what's going on in Gaza. But are these young men and women not aware that their own government has maybe murdered maybe five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten times as many people in the last 15 years? And not only that, but they’re party to genocides in Yemen. and elsewhere? Why are they so quick to condemn Israel and to occupy college buildings and whatnot, and seemingly so disinterested in crimes against humanity committed elsewhere? Now, that's a fair question, right?”
Ryan Cristian: I don't think so. I think that's a ridiculous sidestep. Whether he knows it or not, I think that's a very dishonest question, because what the hell does it matter about whether they recognize other genocides. Like you're supposed to be even handed with how you get outraged about genocide. That seems like a really crazy question to me. But here's the real point. It's that ultimately you could argue that maybe they didn't see those things. And that doesn't mean that they don't care about them. I think what we're watching right now—and this is why I also feel very impassioned, I feel very inspired by what we're seeing out here, whether or not I disagree with the different political sides that may be present—is that they are becoming awakened to something much bigger than just Israel and Gaza. They're recognizing that Zionism overlaps with our government and all sorts of things. There's Christian Biden, for crying out loud, as an open Christian Zionist.
I was recently just covering again the Rwanda genocide. I don't know if people understand how provably and on the record it is that Israel was involved before, during, and after the whole thing. That's written by Israeli media.
And so we have to realize that this is much bigger than one group. And they may be backwardly now realizing that. My point is you have places like Iraq and Syria and others that are illegally occupied, which then also gives those groups the right to legal armed resistance under the Fourthg Geneva Convention. But anytime they respond in any way, it's “terrorism.” People are starting to recognize this, including these people that may have been blind to it before on all sides of the two-party illusion.
Fair enough. Kevin, I'm going to slightly disagree with Ryan there. You and I have butted heads over this before.
I think Israel is held to a higher standard. I think Ryan has a good point when he says, look, maybe some of these young men and women are not aware of some of the things that have gone on in recent decades. That's fair enough. Ryan might be right there. I concede that. But Israel is held to a higher standard than other governments and other democracies. That's fair, isn't it, Kevin?
Kevin Barrett: No, it's completely, grotesquely wrong. It's quite the opposite, in fact. And this notion that the Zionists say, oh, if you criticize us, you must be an anti-Semite, because Hitler and Attila the Hun and Genghis Khan killed a lot more people than we're killing right now—it's a joke. If that's their argument, you know they're completely wrong.
But it actually goes way beyond that. Yes, it's true that the American government has killed huge numbers of people all over the world. Chomsky and Volchek estimated 60 million since World War II. And that was before the last decade and a half of war. So, yeah, the American government is horrible. However, in terms of what's going on in that particular region, it's all on Zionism. All of it. John F. Kennedy, like Dwight Eisenhower, but even more so, was leaning towards the Arab side and trying to shut down Dimona. He was very much a fan of the Algerian revolution. He was very much a fan of Abdel Nasser, of the liberation forces in the region.
And he was murdered by the Zionists, who took over American Middle East policy. And every death in these huge conflicts in the region since then is totally 100% on Zionism.
Israel did 9/11 to hijack the American military to go and destroy its enemies. That's what 9/11 was. And even if you don't know that or believe it, I can show you a quote by Philip Zelikow, the czar of the 9/11 cover-up commission. He admitted that what all of this is about, “it's not that Saddam Hussein or anybody like that could ever threaten the United States. I'll tell you what it's really about. It's about the threat to Israel. But that's the threat that dare not speak its name. And so we try to soft sell it.”
All those deaths are on Israel. The United States is not killing people in the Middle East. Israel is killing people in the Middle East by hijacking the American military to do it.
But Kevin and I have butted heads over the years about the Israeli involvement or otherwise in September the 11th. I still don't buy it. But anyway, and I'm not owned by Zionist Incorporated, just in case anyone wonders. We've had that argument. I'll stay with you for a second, Kevin. And then I can't wait to hear Ryan's take on this. Look, I'm happy to see the students put the universities in the spotlight and say to them, “listen, we're not happy. We're paying good money to be here. And we don't want you to be involved in what is patently a genocide in Gaza.” And it's a good thing. And I hope it picks up in the UK and I hope we see it in Ireland as well. I can't wait to get both of your thoughts on this. You first, Kevin. According to the US State Department, and well, it must be true if the US State Department says it, the Russians have extensively deployed chemical weapons in Ukraine. Do you agree? Do you believe that?
Kevin Barrett: We heard of something about that with Syria, and we now know that some of the biggest events, Douma, etc., were actually ginned up by the enemies of the Assad government in order to blame him for non-existent chemical attacks. And so when the Americans cry chemical weapons, we obviously should be very, very skeptical.
You're skeptical about it. But the Russians are…look, again, and I've had this argument with both of you. Why would the Russians be any better? Why would the Russian military be any better than the US military or the British military or the French in terms of adhering to accepted codes of conduct in war zones? That's what I wonder. I'm not sure it has happened. But I keep an open mind. Ryan, what do you reckon? Ryan, there's going to be a statement on this. Biden is expected to speak on the university situation at some stage today, but they're also going to do a big press conference on chemical weapons. What do you think, Ryan, when you hear this accusation?
Ryan Cristian: Well, there's a couple of important things. Obviously I'm with you on the fact, and you know this: I'm very pessimistic when it comes to any government. I'm very anarchist. My mind is very anarchistic when it comes to what I think the world should be like. And that doesn't mean chaos, a whole conversation to be had around anarchism. But I think what's important to think about is that any government is left with the kind of unchecked power that the U.S. and Israel and Zionism have had for a long enough time would end up in this position. That's my pessimism.
I think that Russia has been in a position so long seeing that it's advantageous for them to play the counterbalance to the U.S. empire. And it's very it works for them. Now, I could be wrong. Maybe they are the right guy, the good guy and the bad guy scenario. I don't think that.
But to the second point. I think it's obvious that, of course the Russian government could do something like this. I don't know anybody that would say that's not possible. But I don't think it makes sense. As Kevin's pointing out about Syria, there have been countless times that that they've been accused of that, and that we have proven they didn't. Going back to Carlo Del Ponte from the U.N. saying it was the Syrian rebels. We know this stuff. But the interesting part to me is where did the report come from? Who is citing this information? It's probably Ukrainian entities saying that happened. I doubt there's U.S. people that are right there watching. But even if they are, why would we trust U.S. government statements when they have a clear side in this? What I find most fascinating is that with that kind of uncertainty around it, why is it that they're immediately willing to go? “They did this and we know it and they should be charged for it.”
But over here, we've got endless video and documents and journalists and medics and people over here in Israel going, I can’t see it. Dr. Nick Maynard on the record with LBC said, I watched them assassinate doctors and bury them in the ground. Nothing. But here's U.S. government over here (in Ukraine) going, well, we have to wait and see. We have to ask Israel if we should check this. It shows you a very clear difference.
And that's the same point to Kevin, that there is a very clearly different way they deal with Israel. And I don't think even remotely that it's a higher standard.
I spend a lot of time writing monologues, criticising the BBC and lampooning BBC coverage of anything you can care to think of, geopolitics or otherwise. And yet the BBC has handed a cache of evidence about the shooting dead of those two lads back in November, Basil and Adam, who were playing football when they were shot dead by the IDF. Kevin, what's going on there? That's good old fashioned, brilliant investigative journalism by the BBC. They've pieced together exactly what happened to these two boys and they've handed it over to the UN. Am I missing something, Kevin? What's going on? Why is it doing good journalism?
Kevin Barrett: Yeah, it always is kind of a surprise when we see good stuff being published by the BBC or the New York Times or these other official outlets whose job, most of the time, is to propagandize for some pretty nefarious forces. But the thing is, I think that a lot of people who get red-pilled imagine that all of the establishment media is equally mendacious about everything all of the time. And that's just not true. Journalists are human beings, too. I went to journalism school at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and worked at the student newspaper there. And a lot of people I dealt with ended up having careers in journalism. And they are human beings. And you kind of learn on which side your bread is buttered and how you need to spin things. And some people do better with that than others. But there are always people in journalism who respect good journalism, who want to do good journalism. Some of them end up working at BBC. Some of them will take on subjects that they aren't supposed to and they'll end up having terrible problems. Others will get away with doing things like the report that you cited and many other really good reports that have been done and are still being done by various news outlets.
You'll see the New York Times will put out an atrocious genocide propaganda series by an Israeli military propagandist about supposed rapes that committed by Hamas that never happened. And then they'll also do these investigations of things like the death of Shireen Abu Akleh. Now, indeed, that was a little late, but it was very well done. And they've done a number of those kinds of forensic investigations quite well.
So the mainstream media is a totally mixed bag. You have to read it critically. You can't just assume anything. You have to actually read and think.
Yes, like Ryan said, when LBC put Maynard on the air, I produced mainstream radio, local and national. My skill or my qualification, for want of a better way of putting it, is producing radio, booking guests, setting the agenda. Ryan, they knew that Nick Maynard was going to go on the air and say the Israelis are murdering and burying doctors, and they allowed it. And I'm always fascinated because I'm far more pessimistic than Kevin. I think the media is entirely captured, Ryan, But obviously not.
Ryan Cristian: Well, I actually I agree with you both. Let me explain why. I think what's interesting about this is I agree exactly with what Kevin said. It's never all or nothing. For example, I'm a big fan of Alison Morrow, who's somebody who broke away from corporate media and has been ringing that bell ever since, telling people “it's not what you think. There are things you're not allowed to say.” Stuff like that.
Those people exist. And it could be that there's a level of willful ignorance until that point… I think there's a moment where people that have some integrity can't do it any more. But I think it's also that we see this situation where right now for instance with Maynard or anybody else that you can see this willingness to start doing what they know people want, because this is a business let's not forget. Even though the things some people still pretend are conspiracy theory, that we have government influence on these platforms, that you've got all sorts of different shadowy things that go on behind the scenes that influence the outcome of what news is, the propaganda.
And right now they're in a very dangerous position. The way I've compared it on my show is: Think about what Joe Biden is going through. He's lost like 80% of his entire base because of what's going on with Israel, which is confusing for some people, unless you realize that there are people involved who don't realize they're wrong. And they all see the genocide. So Biden just kept going. I always ask why that is. I find that fascinating. He's still doing it now. But I think what we're seeing is the government's starting to go, “well, maybe kill less children,” but then Israel freaks out on them for for barely stepping on a line.
But I think the reason they did that is because they're going, “please see us as the moral thing we pretended to be.” And I think the media is doing the same thing. They're going, OK, let's give them this one. Let's break down this lie that we all know they already see and win some points with them, maybe even letting the Israeli lobbyists know they're going to do it.
But I know at the end of the day, it's about a “get one for them, one for you” kind of a game. And I think they've lost so much viewership because it's transparently dishonest that they're starting to give a little bit of truth. Now I know I'm a pessimist when it comes to these things, but I believe that's the reality. And as Kevin said, there are some people that are seeing that even within the media. They're just horrified by it and are probably going to leave.
You're listening to Ryan Cristian and Kevin Barrett. We've got about 90 seconds left, so 45 seconds each. We'll start with Kevin. There's a deal apparently on the table. Hamas negotiators have been meeting with Israelis in Egypt and there's a deal involving Palestinian prisoners being released from Israeli jails, many of whom have no business being in Israeli jails. A release of some hostages and maybe a 40-day ceasefire. Netanyahu, the Israeli PM, says, regardless, if we want to go into Rafah and clear out Rafah, we will do it. Kevin, 45 seconds. What do you see happening in the coming weeks? What's your guess? What's your forecast for what happens?
Kevin Barrett: I wish I were more optimistic about the next few weeks, but I don't think that Hamas can afford to go for anything other than a permanent ceasefire. If it's just 40 days, they give up their hostages and then after 40 days Netanyahu resumes the genocide. So it's either got to be permanent, or there's got to be some form of gentleman's agreement, not that any of these people are gentlemen, but some path to a permanent ceasefire or Hamas just won't do it. There's no reason for them to. Strategically, they're winning. I mean, every day, it's horrible suffering. Their people are suffering atrociously. But it's the evil Zionists who are doing it in plain sight and destroying all of their own credibility. So ultimately, I don't think that Netanyahu can afford it or wants it. I think Netanyahu will do whatever he can to sabotage any possibility of a deal, because if there is a deal, then he's at risk of leaving office and going to jail.
He's out of his job. Ryan?
Ryan Cristian: Yes, exactly what Kevin said, building on that. The point being that they (the Zionists) sabotaged this two-state solution, as we know from Oslo Accords or any other discussion, (inserting) poison pills, making sure they didn't accept the deal and blaming (the Palestinians). They're doing the same thing now that they always have. And I think the whole game has been that there was some back and forth at the beginning. We saw that little faux pause. All it did is end up right back where it was: starvation, murder. And so the point is, (the Palestinians) have said “we want full ceasefire, full exchange, and that's it.” Which, by the way, Israel would go right back on once they got what they wanted, like they always have anyway. The point is, as Kevin said, Netanyahu does not want that. And the real point to recognize is that an Israeli journalist, Mariana from 972 Magazine, I believe that's her name, is highlighting the fact that almost all of the people, the families of the hostages, are currently saying, “take whatever deal Hamas is offering if we get our families back.” You don't hear that in the United States. And the point is that it’s the government of Israel against everybody else maintaining this genocide for possibly just Netanyahu's interests.
Guys, great to have you both on the program. You will find Kevin Barrett, academic broadcaster, author at kevinbarrett.substack.com, truthjihad.com. And of course, Ryan is the man behind thelastamericanvagabond.com. Great resources, great journalists. Thanks to both of the guys for coming on today.
Richie Allen, Ryan Cristian and I Discuss the Anti-Genocide Protests