Interesting questions. I think Judaism is a religion, but one that fosters tribalism more than most religions do. Tribalism is of course about ASCRIBED ancestry, not scientific genetics. The "begets" and "begots" in the Torah trace a myth of ascribed ancestry, according to which "Jews" are descendants of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob/Israel, etc. So religious Jews see themselves as a tribe, meaning an extended family. After 3000 years of that religious conditioning, today's post-religious Jews do too...many of them, anyway. So just by being born "Jewish" even if they're atheists they think of themselves as ethnically Jewish. In that sense "Jewish" is an ethnicity.
That history of social conditioning doesn't completely constrain individual Jews' intellectual and spiritual freedom to choose other paths, or to interpret their tradition in all sorts of ways. For example, I despise the tribal-psychopathic interpretations of Netanyahu and Ben Gurion, but kind of like the universalist interpretations of Douglas Rushkoff and Marc Ellis. I even respect the traditional tribalism of Naturei Karta. And of course I like the truth-seeking free spirits like Gilad Atzmon.
I don't judge people positively or negatively based on their ethnic background. It what they make of it that counts. That's what Islam teaches, and like so much of Islam, it's just common sense.
So all Muslims agree that Leopold Weiss aka Muhammad Asad was one of the great Muslims of the 20th century. No well-informed Muslim would have a problem with him because he was born Jewish.
NASA received $24 billion in 2022. Thats only one of the space agencies. Good job all’s well on planet Earth. But don’t fret we are told an unmanned rocket will shortly be on the moon. They’ve just got to work out how to pass through the radiation belts we’re told. Wait didn’t we already...
Kevin’s theory that the shape of the Earth would distract from the 911 truth is just that a theory. 9 years after the attack the ruling elite knew flat earth would save their skins! Your theory could possibly be true but it does not then prove or disprove where and what we are living on. Hundreds of theories of how,why,who around 911 but only a handful of facts prove without doubt we have been lied to. Same thing with where we are living. My theory is that no man will ever know for sure and only the Creator (and possibly who He allows) will know. But what is a fact is that the ball model we’ve all been brainwashed into believing does not and cannot hold water, their own curvature calculation disproves their own model!
“Flat earther “ again! How many millions upon millions has and is being spent pushing the spinning wet ball theory?? No.1 proof we cannot be living on a big testical is water in its natural state will ALWAYS be level. I know Kevin thinks it’s impossible for water to be level because he believes a theory a man thought up a few years ago and it’s taught in classes by clever people, who by the way were taught by other clever people who have taken a theory as fact and not got any closer to prove gravity is a force pulling us down so we all don’t fly away. Shame good old gravity didn’t stop my daughters helium balloon disappear up to the sky the other week.
You have no idea how challenging it is to me to have activism conversations with the "gray haired activists" who STILL INSIST...that "major event only" political tactics are the way to go STILL NOW!
In less than ONE PARAGRAPH of conversation, the old gray haired farts state: "Lets get together a HUGE MARCH and the "media" will HAVE TO cover us anymore. Followed by: "I am so frustrated that the media does not cover us."
Like has happened for the LAST HALF CENTURY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! duh
Same person...same paragraph...same-old-same-old!
So, while you have to deal with Fetzer...I have to deal with these "old dogs"...that ain't got NO WAY to learn new tricks. Its stunning.
I am hoping that you will choose to use my new term: "Oligarch Media" or "Oligarch NEWS" [my preferred phrase]. It would be very productive for this concept to make its way into your deep mind enough for you to start using either of those terms.
Its quite typical of the "USofA Left" to get only part way into ANYTHING...and "Corporate Media" is such an example. Where did they [also you and others] STOP?
Just before considering WHO OWNS the stock OF the Corporate Media.
Agreed on rejecting "bad behavior"...agreed also on both: citizens in the USofA needing to reject much of its capitalist/militarist ways...AND...that ALL Js...ALL around the world...should totally reject Israel's awful behavior towards the Palestinians...PERIOD!
And I "think" that Kitsap County will soon locate drop boxes in every HS in the county. One of the TWO biggest mistakes that my fellow activists from the 0s-70s made was to NOT reach backward in age and make sure to INVITE every high school graduate into our democracy...OR...even into what was "THEN"...a revolution or two.
The other mistake was to TRUST what was then called "Main Stream Media" to give adequate coverage to "their opposition" [US!]. After the PICs of a napalmed young girl and an execution by pistol to the head made it into MSM NEWS, and then it became coupled with the "Conspiracy Theorized Assassination of JFK" [and everybody of influence else], the OLIGARCHS figured out that THEIR WELL PAID FOR "NEWS TALKING HEADS" simply could NOT treat us activists equally. You have NO IDEA how frustrating it isfr me to have conversations with "gray haired activists" who, well/poorly trained
Kevin, I stand my ground on this and since most Js benefit financially and even entrance into colleges and universtities...and seats on boards of major corporations, or in another ways from the tribal billionaires, even non-practicing Js are NOT going to change anything to do with their status at all. As an example: How heinous is the genocide in Palestine an Gaza...and how fair is it the Js are stealing Palestinian land and building settlements? Answers: VERY HEINOUS and totally UNFAIR [and illegal]. This behavior should be rejected by ALL Js...but NOPE...they go along with it...just like they go along being sayonims at one level or another. Hope you got my mail ballot copy...I find voting-by-mail to be GREAT! Peace robin
Thanks, Robin. I think the bad behavior should be rejected by everybody. Yes, Jews have extra responsibility for the "Jewish state" just like Americans have for the US. Unfortunately I don't see most Jews OR most Americans (or Jewish-Americans, who are doubly responsible) rejecting their nations' bad behavior. So I guess I'm an anti-American as well as anti-Semite ; - )
And yes, thanks for the ballot - don't worry, I won't mark it up and mail it in ; - )
I think my best friend failed test#3 some 25 or so years ago. And for me, I just learned a new word in the last week or so - minyan, or "min"?. And if I had to speculate, I've had a fairly recent revelation about the true meaning, or intention of, dare I say it, blood sacrifices being a big, juicy steak. No vegetarians, these folks. I try to like and respect all people, for the record.
Kevin, a while back you had stated that you thought there were only about 6K "sayonims" [sp] living within the USofA who were fundementaly serving Israel or the Jooish Lobby's needs. I FIRMLY beg to differ. IMO EVERY Jooish person, in one way or another, is serving Israel...and here is why...it is so very, very simple. Such people have two choices:
1. Do NOT do what a "good Joo" would do when operating in the USofA...and suffer the
consequences. Negative consequences will soon come in many ways and without ANY care for
the individual...and this will surely include a "shunning" by their only real community which accepts
them. Atzmon, a solid sayonim himself, told our crowd in Seattle a few years back that Jooish
People do not have ANY consciouses. I have no life-long reason to challenge his statement.
2. If a sayonim DOES do what is required of them...even any tiny efforts to protect or support
Israel AND to give preference to hiring other sayonims into the "USofA based Israeli economy",
then they will get the financial rewards and stability. Perhaps this best defines "The Tribe".
So, with Lerner, Atzmon, and perhaps other such dignitaries whom you once trusted as being at least neutral in "tribe issues vs USofA citizenship, I think that you still may have a large blind spot here?
Either you are a TRIBESMAN...or you are NOT! The "NOTS"...don't have a good future ahead of them...
Well, Robin, I don't think it's quite that cut-and-dried. I would guess that about 20 to 30% of American Jews are fully tribal, another 20 to 30% are pretty much totally non-tribal (they don't think about their Jewish heritage any more than I think about my Irish, Scottish, Welsh, and German heritage), and the rest are somewhere in-between. The net result of that is, of course, a powerful ethnic mafia. The main issue is the Jewish billiionaires and multi-millionaires, most of whom ARE tribal (that's at least partly how they got so rich, through nepotism). A certain percentage of the rest of the Jewish population lines up behind them. If we want to fix the situation, we need to convince ordinary Jews to stop lining up behind their sociopathic elite.
The studies showing that Jews are massively overrepresented in the Ivy League are discussed in the second half of this article: https://www.unz.com/runz/challenging-racial-discrimination-at-harvard/ They show that while Jews do, on the average, slightly out-perform non-Jewish whites on measures of "intellect" (test scores, grades), the outrageous Jewish dominance of Ivy League universities cannot even begin to be explained by that difference. They only plausible explanation is ethnic nepotisim. Philip Weiss discusses how Jewish ethnic nepotism (not superior ability) has led to Jewish dominance of mainstream media here: https://mondoweiss.net/2008/02/do-jews-dominat/
That first article is long and i haven't absorbed it yet, but i did hear somewhere that the study that showed Ashkenazi have superior intelligence, did not do a random sample so populated it with people from only high intelligence fields, thus skewing the results. But i don't remember where that was discussed or if it were true
Good questions! I think Judaism is a religion, but happens to be more tribal than most. The Torah's series of "begets" and "begots" traces Jews' ASCRIBED ancestry (not their scientific genetics) through Abraham and Isaac and Jacob/Israel and the other Biblical prophets. So Jews have had 3000 years of religious conditioning teaching them that they are one big extended family, in other words, a tribe. Even today's secular/atheist Jews are affected by that history, and many of them consider themselves ethnically Jewish despite their lack of religious feeling. In that sense "Jewish" is an ethnicity.
That history of religious conditioning, powerful as it is, does not completely constrain individual Jews' intellectual and spiritual freedom. Some reject or resist the conditioning, while others interpret their tradition in all sorts of ways, for good or ill. Personally, I despise the Satanism of Sabbatai Zevi, the tribal psychopathy of Netanyahu and Ben Gurion, the cynical Nietzchian atheism of Leo Strauss, and the moronic/mendacious liberalism of the secular Jews who dominate mainstream media. At the same time I admire the universalist interpretations of Douglas Rushkoff and Mark Ellis, the traditionalism-with-integrity of Naturei Karta, and of course the free spirits like Gilad Atzmon. And of course I'm happy to let Gilad decide whether he's Jewish or not!
Islam teaches us to judge people on their piety and actions, not their backgrounds. Like so much of Islam, that's just common sense. So all Muslims agree that Leopold Weiss/Muhammad Asad, born a European Jew, was one of the greatest Muslims of the 20th century.
Nobody is "the real Jews." Hebrew mythology grew out of Divine revelations, and everybody is equally entitled to it.
Interesting questions. I think Judaism is a religion, but one that fosters tribalism more than most religions do. Tribalism is of course about ASCRIBED ancestry, not scientific genetics. The "begets" and "begots" in the Torah trace a myth of ascribed ancestry, according to which "Jews" are descendants of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob/Israel, etc. So religious Jews see themselves as a tribe, meaning an extended family. After 3000 years of that religious conditioning, today's post-religious Jews do too...many of them, anyway. So just by being born "Jewish" even if they're atheists they think of themselves as ethnically Jewish. In that sense "Jewish" is an ethnicity.
That history of social conditioning doesn't completely constrain individual Jews' intellectual and spiritual freedom to choose other paths, or to interpret their tradition in all sorts of ways. For example, I despise the tribal-psychopathic interpretations of Netanyahu and Ben Gurion, but kind of like the universalist interpretations of Douglas Rushkoff and Marc Ellis. I even respect the traditional tribalism of Naturei Karta. And of course I like the truth-seeking free spirits like Gilad Atzmon.
I don't judge people positively or negatively based on their ethnic background. It what they make of it that counts. That's what Islam teaches, and like so much of Islam, it's just common sense.
So all Muslims agree that Leopold Weiss aka Muhammad Asad was one of the great Muslims of the 20th century. No well-informed Muslim would have a problem with him because he was born Jewish.
NASA received $24 billion in 2022. Thats only one of the space agencies. Good job all’s well on planet Earth. But don’t fret we are told an unmanned rocket will shortly be on the moon. They’ve just got to work out how to pass through the radiation belts we’re told. Wait didn’t we already...
Kevin’s theory that the shape of the Earth would distract from the 911 truth is just that a theory. 9 years after the attack the ruling elite knew flat earth would save their skins! Your theory could possibly be true but it does not then prove or disprove where and what we are living on. Hundreds of theories of how,why,who around 911 but only a handful of facts prove without doubt we have been lied to. Same thing with where we are living. My theory is that no man will ever know for sure and only the Creator (and possibly who He allows) will know. But what is a fact is that the ball model we’ve all been brainwashed into believing does not and cannot hold water, their own curvature calculation disproves their own model!
“Flat earther “ again! How many millions upon millions has and is being spent pushing the spinning wet ball theory?? No.1 proof we cannot be living on a big testical is water in its natural state will ALWAYS be level. I know Kevin thinks it’s impossible for water to be level because he believes a theory a man thought up a few years ago and it’s taught in classes by clever people, who by the way were taught by other clever people who have taken a theory as fact and not got any closer to prove gravity is a force pulling us down so we all don’t fly away. Shame good old gravity didn’t stop my daughters helium balloon disappear up to the sky the other week.
Cont>
You have no idea how challenging it is to me to have activism conversations with the "gray haired activists" who STILL INSIST...that "major event only" political tactics are the way to go STILL NOW!
In less than ONE PARAGRAPH of conversation, the old gray haired farts state: "Lets get together a HUGE MARCH and the "media" will HAVE TO cover us anymore. Followed by: "I am so frustrated that the media does not cover us."
Like has happened for the LAST HALF CENTURY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! duh
Same person...same paragraph...same-old-same-old!
So, while you have to deal with Fetzer...I have to deal with these "old dogs"...that ain't got NO WAY to learn new tricks. Its stunning.
I am hoping that you will choose to use my new term: "Oligarch Media" or "Oligarch NEWS" [my preferred phrase]. It would be very productive for this concept to make its way into your deep mind enough for you to start using either of those terms.
Its quite typical of the "USofA Left" to get only part way into ANYTHING...and "Corporate Media" is such an example. Where did they [also you and others] STOP?
Just before considering WHO OWNS the stock OF the Corporate Media.
"Its the OLIGRCHS STUPID"...
DUH?
Thankfully the YOUTH is coming...
Peace...robin
Agreed on rejecting "bad behavior"...agreed also on both: citizens in the USofA needing to reject much of its capitalist/militarist ways...AND...that ALL Js...ALL around the world...should totally reject Israel's awful behavior towards the Palestinians...PERIOD!
And I "think" that Kitsap County will soon locate drop boxes in every HS in the county. One of the TWO biggest mistakes that my fellow activists from the 0s-70s made was to NOT reach backward in age and make sure to INVITE every high school graduate into our democracy...OR...even into what was "THEN"...a revolution or two.
The other mistake was to TRUST what was then called "Main Stream Media" to give adequate coverage to "their opposition" [US!]. After the PICs of a napalmed young girl and an execution by pistol to the head made it into MSM NEWS, and then it became coupled with the "Conspiracy Theorized Assassination of JFK" [and everybody of influence else], the OLIGARCHS figured out that THEIR WELL PAID FOR "NEWS TALKING HEADS" simply could NOT treat us activists equally. You have NO IDEA how frustrating it isfr me to have conversations with "gray haired activists" who, well/poorly trained
I don't understand apps. What do I do with it after I download it, if I decide to download it, which I am not inclined to do.
Kevin, I stand my ground on this and since most Js benefit financially and even entrance into colleges and universtities...and seats on boards of major corporations, or in another ways from the tribal billionaires, even non-practicing Js are NOT going to change anything to do with their status at all. As an example: How heinous is the genocide in Palestine an Gaza...and how fair is it the Js are stealing Palestinian land and building settlements? Answers: VERY HEINOUS and totally UNFAIR [and illegal]. This behavior should be rejected by ALL Js...but NOPE...they go along with it...just like they go along being sayonims at one level or another. Hope you got my mail ballot copy...I find voting-by-mail to be GREAT! Peace robin
Thanks, Robin. I think the bad behavior should be rejected by everybody. Yes, Jews have extra responsibility for the "Jewish state" just like Americans have for the US. Unfortunately I don't see most Jews OR most Americans (or Jewish-Americans, who are doubly responsible) rejecting their nations' bad behavior. So I guess I'm an anti-American as well as anti-Semite ; - )
And yes, thanks for the ballot - don't worry, I won't mark it up and mail it in ; - )
I think my best friend failed test#3 some 25 or so years ago. And for me, I just learned a new word in the last week or so - minyan, or "min"?. And if I had to speculate, I've had a fairly recent revelation about the true meaning, or intention of, dare I say it, blood sacrifices being a big, juicy steak. No vegetarians, these folks. I try to like and respect all people, for the record.
Kevin, a while back you had stated that you thought there were only about 6K "sayonims" [sp] living within the USofA who were fundementaly serving Israel or the Jooish Lobby's needs. I FIRMLY beg to differ. IMO EVERY Jooish person, in one way or another, is serving Israel...and here is why...it is so very, very simple. Such people have two choices:
1. Do NOT do what a "good Joo" would do when operating in the USofA...and suffer the
consequences. Negative consequences will soon come in many ways and without ANY care for
the individual...and this will surely include a "shunning" by their only real community which accepts
them. Atzmon, a solid sayonim himself, told our crowd in Seattle a few years back that Jooish
People do not have ANY consciouses. I have no life-long reason to challenge his statement.
2. If a sayonim DOES do what is required of them...even any tiny efforts to protect or support
Israel AND to give preference to hiring other sayonims into the "USofA based Israeli economy",
then they will get the financial rewards and stability. Perhaps this best defines "The Tribe".
So, with Lerner, Atzmon, and perhaps other such dignitaries whom you once trusted as being at least neutral in "tribe issues vs USofA citizenship, I think that you still may have a large blind spot here?
Either you are a TRIBESMAN...or you are NOT! The "NOTS"...don't have a good future ahead of them...
Peace...robin
Well, Robin, I don't think it's quite that cut-and-dried. I would guess that about 20 to 30% of American Jews are fully tribal, another 20 to 30% are pretty much totally non-tribal (they don't think about their Jewish heritage any more than I think about my Irish, Scottish, Welsh, and German heritage), and the rest are somewhere in-between. The net result of that is, of course, a powerful ethnic mafia. The main issue is the Jewish billiionaires and multi-millionaires, most of whom ARE tribal (that's at least partly how they got so rich, through nepotism). A certain percentage of the rest of the Jewish population lines up behind them. If we want to fix the situation, we need to convince ordinary Jews to stop lining up behind their sociopathic elite.
Isn't the reason Jews are successful because they have superior intellect? What were the details on the study that came to that determination?
The studies showing that Jews are massively overrepresented in the Ivy League are discussed in the second half of this article: https://www.unz.com/runz/challenging-racial-discrimination-at-harvard/ They show that while Jews do, on the average, slightly out-perform non-Jewish whites on measures of "intellect" (test scores, grades), the outrageous Jewish dominance of Ivy League universities cannot even begin to be explained by that difference. They only plausible explanation is ethnic nepotisim. Philip Weiss discusses how Jewish ethnic nepotism (not superior ability) has led to Jewish dominance of mainstream media here: https://mondoweiss.net/2008/02/do-jews-dominat/
Here's an analysis of the question: https://youtu.be/stLCurXu0fc
Here's a debunking of the superior IQ stance https://youtu.be/stLCurXu0fc
That first article is long and i haven't absorbed it yet, but i did hear somewhere that the study that showed Ashkenazi have superior intelligence, did not do a random sample so populated it with people from only high intelligence fields, thus skewing the results. But i don't remember where that was discussed or if it were true
Good questions! I think Judaism is a religion, but happens to be more tribal than most. The Torah's series of "begets" and "begots" traces Jews' ASCRIBED ancestry (not their scientific genetics) through Abraham and Isaac and Jacob/Israel and the other Biblical prophets. So Jews have had 3000 years of religious conditioning teaching them that they are one big extended family, in other words, a tribe. Even today's secular/atheist Jews are affected by that history, and many of them consider themselves ethnically Jewish despite their lack of religious feeling. In that sense "Jewish" is an ethnicity.
That history of religious conditioning, powerful as it is, does not completely constrain individual Jews' intellectual and spiritual freedom. Some reject or resist the conditioning, while others interpret their tradition in all sorts of ways, for good or ill. Personally, I despise the Satanism of Sabbatai Zevi, the tribal psychopathy of Netanyahu and Ben Gurion, the cynical Nietzchian atheism of Leo Strauss, and the moronic/mendacious liberalism of the secular Jews who dominate mainstream media. At the same time I admire the universalist interpretations of Douglas Rushkoff and Mark Ellis, the traditionalism-with-integrity of Naturei Karta, and of course the free spirits like Gilad Atzmon. And of course I'm happy to let Gilad decide whether he's Jewish or not!
Islam teaches us to judge people on their piety and actions, not their backgrounds. Like so much of Islam, that's just common sense. So all Muslims agree that Leopold Weiss/Muhammad Asad, born a European Jew, was one of the greatest Muslims of the 20th century.