With the rise of Islam there was a blockade of the frontiers of the old Roman Empire. Cities like Marseille that was once a thriving frontier trading post disappeared. Populations moved north away from the mediterranean and fell into subsistence survival. As the Roman civil government disappeared the church took over as government. It’s true Byzantium (the Eastern Empire) still had a trade with some cities in Italy like Venice but the frontiers were almost entirely cut off from the East. So, a society based on barter and subsistence living with the only government the church, constant raids from the north (viking) and the south (Islamic), that traded in slaves. Anyway, when the weather got better in the Medieval Warm Period, farming techniques improved, cities along the rivers revived trade. This society that rose up was called “Christendom” because it for centuries was cut off from the East, and was exclusively Christian. It was entirely different than the old Roman Empire. My understanding is that in Spain Christians were not allowed to grow wine or sing—both of which were essential to the practice of their religion. But I think the worst part was the slave trade. The coasts of France and Italy were abandoned for fear of getting kidnapped into slavery.
I don't think that's accurate. As I recall from books like Polk's Crusade and Jihad and Lewis's God's Crucible (both obviously mildly biased towards Christendom) as well as the pro-Muslim Ornament of the World by Menocal and Muslim accounts, the notion that " Populations moved north away from the mediterranean and fell into subsistence survival" is wrong or exaggerated. And the wars weren't really about religion. The quarreling kingdoms just kept quarreling as they always have, and still are. Christian and Muslim rulers allied against other Christian and Muslim rulers; neither side stuck together much. The whole "crusade vs. jihad" thing, that it was about religion, is a myth that was constructed in fictional epic accounts like El Cid and the Chanson de Roland.
That said, Islamic civilization at the time, which included Christians and Jews, was vastly more developed, tolerant, and pluralistic than Christian civilization. Lewis admits that Europe lost centuries of progress by not joining Islamic civilization.
Nice essay on Islam with a bit of comparative theology. Your comparisons with Buddhism were interesting. All the Muslims I have known have been much more God/ religion aware than the current generation of college educated Americans. I also like the practice orientation of Muslims. You are asked to do something. I find that my "Buddhist" friends just want to be nice, but there is no practice and little discipline, and they never say a prayer. Muslim views of death are interesting and remind me of the similar Catholic final judgment. Big appeal to fear there "If/ then you will burn for all eternity." Not the God of love that draws me. I believe in re-incarnation which seems more proportionate. If cruel, you come back as an animal, and get eaten perhaps. If you are overly into sex, you come back as a Japanese Beatle. Certainly there is enough suffering in the animal level, especially at the lower levels of consciousness. And the goal is to evolve and become closer to God. Ultimately we all come from Spirit and unto Spirit we will return, because Consciousness/ Spirit is what we are, but we are sure slow learners.
Generally nations do not live up to the ideals of that nation's faith, in Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, and sometimes even Islam. Maybe it's not the religion that is the problem, but the human ego.
I have to agree with the history being very mixed. Christianity was practically obliterated in the early Medieval period with Christians driven far from the coast of the mediterranean—thus the North Atlantic dominance in Europe from the Middle Ages onward. Unfortunately this deep historical bias divided the Mediterranean culture permanently—what once had been a Roman Lake with a common culture. Also, unfortunately, you still see that bias exercised in the inability of Americans to even perceive the suffering of the Palestinians, fearing Hamas, fearing Islam. I don’t see the divide ever being mended that is why despite the immense and obvious injustice, I have no hope for a viable Israel and a peaceful Palestine. It might go the way of the Crusades.
I thought that in the early Medieval period Christianity still thrived both in the Byzantine lands, which were really just the Roman empire moved eastward, including on 1000+ miles of the northeastern shores of the Med, as well as in the Islamic lands, where Christians were protected and connected to the larger Christian world through trade and pilgrimage routes. Indeed, Christianity did much better under Islamic rule than it is doing today under secular-atheist rule.
I have hope. Netanyahu and his tribe were caught performing genocide on the Palestinian Semites to create an Apartheid country. Even the "liberal" Jews say the Zionists are not Jews because they are Anti-Semitic. This does not fly for anti-racist Europeans, African Americans, Latinos, American Indians, Chinese, Russians, Muslims, or Irish. We need regime change in Israel. The globalist agenda is one world. That is why we have all these immigration problems with the Great Reset. Netanyahu is in the way. China is their social model and they trade with everyone no matter what flavor the society.
With the rise of Islam there was a blockade of the frontiers of the old Roman Empire. Cities like Marseille that was once a thriving frontier trading post disappeared. Populations moved north away from the mediterranean and fell into subsistence survival. As the Roman civil government disappeared the church took over as government. It’s true Byzantium (the Eastern Empire) still had a trade with some cities in Italy like Venice but the frontiers were almost entirely cut off from the East. So, a society based on barter and subsistence living with the only government the church, constant raids from the north (viking) and the south (Islamic), that traded in slaves. Anyway, when the weather got better in the Medieval Warm Period, farming techniques improved, cities along the rivers revived trade. This society that rose up was called “Christendom” because it for centuries was cut off from the East, and was exclusively Christian. It was entirely different than the old Roman Empire. My understanding is that in Spain Christians were not allowed to grow wine or sing—both of which were essential to the practice of their religion. But I think the worst part was the slave trade. The coasts of France and Italy were abandoned for fear of getting kidnapped into slavery.
I don't think that's accurate. As I recall from books like Polk's Crusade and Jihad and Lewis's God's Crucible (both obviously mildly biased towards Christendom) as well as the pro-Muslim Ornament of the World by Menocal and Muslim accounts, the notion that " Populations moved north away from the mediterranean and fell into subsistence survival" is wrong or exaggerated. And the wars weren't really about religion. The quarreling kingdoms just kept quarreling as they always have, and still are. Christian and Muslim rulers allied against other Christian and Muslim rulers; neither side stuck together much. The whole "crusade vs. jihad" thing, that it was about religion, is a myth that was constructed in fictional epic accounts like El Cid and the Chanson de Roland.
That said, Islamic civilization at the time, which included Christians and Jews, was vastly more developed, tolerant, and pluralistic than Christian civilization. Lewis admits that Europe lost centuries of progress by not joining Islamic civilization.
Nice essay on Islam with a bit of comparative theology. Your comparisons with Buddhism were interesting. All the Muslims I have known have been much more God/ religion aware than the current generation of college educated Americans. I also like the practice orientation of Muslims. You are asked to do something. I find that my "Buddhist" friends just want to be nice, but there is no practice and little discipline, and they never say a prayer. Muslim views of death are interesting and remind me of the similar Catholic final judgment. Big appeal to fear there "If/ then you will burn for all eternity." Not the God of love that draws me. I believe in re-incarnation which seems more proportionate. If cruel, you come back as an animal, and get eaten perhaps. If you are overly into sex, you come back as a Japanese Beatle. Certainly there is enough suffering in the animal level, especially at the lower levels of consciousness. And the goal is to evolve and become closer to God. Ultimately we all come from Spirit and unto Spirit we will return, because Consciousness/ Spirit is what we are, but we are sure slow learners.
Generally nations do not live up to the ideals of that nation's faith, in Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, and sometimes even Islam. Maybe it's not the religion that is the problem, but the human ego.
I have to agree with the history being very mixed. Christianity was practically obliterated in the early Medieval period with Christians driven far from the coast of the mediterranean—thus the North Atlantic dominance in Europe from the Middle Ages onward. Unfortunately this deep historical bias divided the Mediterranean culture permanently—what once had been a Roman Lake with a common culture. Also, unfortunately, you still see that bias exercised in the inability of Americans to even perceive the suffering of the Palestinians, fearing Hamas, fearing Islam. I don’t see the divide ever being mended that is why despite the immense and obvious injustice, I have no hope for a viable Israel and a peaceful Palestine. It might go the way of the Crusades.
I thought that in the early Medieval period Christianity still thrived both in the Byzantine lands, which were really just the Roman empire moved eastward, including on 1000+ miles of the northeastern shores of the Med, as well as in the Islamic lands, where Christians were protected and connected to the larger Christian world through trade and pilgrimage routes. Indeed, Christianity did much better under Islamic rule than it is doing today under secular-atheist rule.
I have hope. Netanyahu and his tribe were caught performing genocide on the Palestinian Semites to create an Apartheid country. Even the "liberal" Jews say the Zionists are not Jews because they are Anti-Semitic. This does not fly for anti-racist Europeans, African Americans, Latinos, American Indians, Chinese, Russians, Muslims, or Irish. We need regime change in Israel. The globalist agenda is one world. That is why we have all these immigration problems with the Great Reset. Netanyahu is in the way. China is their social model and they trade with everyone no matter what flavor the society.